If we don’t treat daily work as an arena of discipleship, then discipleship becomes something we do in “free time”—a side activity for the few hours each week when we’re not working.
That idea is the heartbeat of the Intersection Faith Work and Life podcast—and it’s exactly why Dr. Joseph Sanders’ story hits so hard: his faith didn’t stay in church language. It moved into leadership, family, mentoring youth, and building culture.
This article takes the key themes from the transcript and expands them into a biblical, practical, and research-respectful framework you can apply immediately—whether you lead a nonprofit, a business team, a classroom, or a family.
The Big Idea: Discipleship Is “All-of-Life” or It Isn’t Discipleship
The podcast opens with a challenge:
- If work is “separate” from discipleship,
- then discipleship becomes a leisure activity,
- and faith shrinks to a compartment.
Scripture pushes the opposite direction.
Jesus doesn’t form disciples for a religious corner of life.
He forms disciples for the kingdom of God—a way of living that touches motives, relationships, money, power, and responsibility.
One of the simplest ways to say it:
Discipleship is learning to follow Jesus in every arena—especially the arenas that shape us most.
For most adults, that arena is work.
Dr. Joe Sanders’ Story: From “Self-Righteous” to Surrender
In the transcript, Dr. Sanders describes a very human progression:
- Childhood faith (he comes to Christ young)
- A powerful model of transformation (his father’s life changes dramatically)
- A shift into performance (“Look what I’m doing…”)
- Brokenness (realizing he’s living out of pride, not relationship)
- Restoration (God as “second chances,” “healing,” “opportunity”)
That arc matches a repeated biblical pattern:
- God rescues
- we drift into pride or self-reliance
- we break
- God restores
- we learn humility
The transcript even references 1 Peter 5:5—the line about being “clothed with humility” and that God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble. That’s not a motivational quote. It’s spiritual reality.
Why “Righteousness” and “Responsibility” Connect (and Why Entitlement Spreads)
A major part of the conversation is Dr. Sanders’ book Unreasonable Responsibility: Eradicating the Disease of Entitlement.
His core contrast is simple:
- Rights-based mindset: “What do I deserve?” “What do you owe me?”
- Responsibility-based mindset: “What am I committed to?” “What is mine to carry?”
That theme isn’t new—it’s deeply biblical.
Jesus’ model is responsibility, not entitlement
Jesus describes His own mission like this:
- He “did not come to be served, but to serve” and to give His life for others (Matthew 20:28).
That is unreasonable responsibility by worldly standards.
Paul echoes the same vision in Philippians 2: the Messiah humbles Himself, takes the posture of a servant, and obeys at immense personal cost.
So when Dr. Sanders says entitlement is a “disease,” he’s not just diagnosing culture—he’s pointing to a spiritual drift:
- from service to being served
- from humility to status
- from stewardship to self-focus
The Faith-and-Work Switch: Work Becomes a Discipleship Classroom
Here’s the key move:
When your work becomes discipleship ground, you stop asking only:
- “How do I succeed?” and start asking:
- “Who am I becoming while I work?”
- “What kind of person does this job train me to be?”
- “What kind of culture am I forming for people around me?”
The transcript highlights a powerful leadership truth:
If you have a few followers, you are shaping culture.
That applies to CEOs, supervisors, teachers, team leads, parents, and older siblings.
Culture is discipleship, slowly.
It trains what people assume is normal:
- how conflict is handled
- whether honesty is safe
- whether responsibility is expected
- whether the vulnerable are protected
The “Gap” That Changed Everything: Why Dr. Sanders Left the Academy
One of the most gripping moments in the transcript is the Louisiana group home story.
Dr. Sanders is speaking to teenage boys in foster care about goals and future—and he realizes many can’t imagine possibilities beyond the “four street corners” around them. Then he returns to the Air Force Academy where cadets talk about global programs, careers, and wide-open options.
That contrast produces a holy discomfort.
He prays. He wrestles. And eventually he reaches a clarity:
“I could not fulfill my divine purpose and remain where I was.”
That doesn’t mean his previous work was pointless. It means God was shifting assignment.
This is a major discipleship lesson:
Sometimes obedience isn’t “do more where you are.”
Sometimes it’s “make space to go where the need is.”
Colorado UpLift: Long-Term Relationships as Ministry Strategy
Colorado UpLift’s mission is described plainly:
“We build long-term, life-changing relationships with urban youth.”
And their programming includes:
- in-school character and leadership classes (including accredited high school electives)
- mentoring, after-school support, and adventure-based experiences
A major principle behind this model is also supported by widely used resilience frameworks: stable, supportive relationships help people adapt through adversity. (The American Psychological Association describes resilience as adapting well through difficulty and stress.)
So the ministry logic is strong:
- youth don’t only need information
- they need consistent presence
- a believable adult
- a living example of faith + responsibility
The “Stress Wood” Lesson (Use Carefully, But It’s Worth Hearing)
The transcript mentions a story often shared as an analogy: trees grown in overly protected environments can become structurally weaker without normal stressors.
As an illustration, it’s used to make a reasonable point that aligns with resilience research: removing all challenge can undermine strength. The APA’s resources emphasize learning to adapt to adversity rather than living without it.
This is exactly why discipleship can’t be “leisure time only.”
Real discipleship happens where real pressure exists: deadlines, conflict, disappointment, criticism, temptation, fatigue.
That’s work.
“Unreasonable Responsibility” Is Actually Christian Normal
Dr. Sanders explains something important:
What sounds “unreasonable” in the world is often “reasonable” in the kingdom.
Examples Jesus gives:
- go beyond minimum expectations (the “extra mile” principle)
- love enemies
- pray for those who oppose you
- choose humility over winning
That’s not weakness. That’s kingdom strength.
And it’s also how leaders build cultures that don’t rot from entitlement.
Three Practical Applications for Faith-at-Work Discipleship
1) Start with an honest diagnosis: rights-based or responsibility-based?
This is a daily heart check:
- Am I mainly thinking “what I deserve”?
- Or “what I’m called to carry”?
2) “Model the way” before you manage others
The transcript hits it: you can lecture your kids (or your team) all day, but they learn most from what you embody.
If you want a responsibility culture:
- take responsibility first
- apologize fast
- keep promises
- show up consistently
3) Look for the “gap” God keeps putting in your face
A simple CPG-style prompt (fits the whole conversation):
- “Here is how things are.”
- “Here is how things ought to be.”
- “What is my part in the gap?”
That “gap” might be:
- mentoring one student
- rebuilding team culture
- changing how you lead meetings
- restoring your marriage tone
- serving youth in your neighborhood
Small beginnings. Long obedience.
Closing: The World Doesn’t Need More Opinions—It Needs More Disciples at Work
One of the best lines in the transcript is the encouragement to leaders:
If you’re in any place where you can impact someone, have the impact.
That’s discipleship language—because discipleship is always relational.
And work is one of the most relational places we spend our lives.
So the question isn’t, “Do you have a ministry?”
It’s:
Do you have influence—and is Jesus shaping how you use it?